I can't tell you why, because everyone I know and work with would give you a pass on the traffic violation, if they knew you had a permit. You ARE one of the good guys. (Plus, based on your account, he was acting outside the scope of his authority)
If we're honest about it, there are groups of people that are on our side. Cops, fire fighters, military, municipal workers, members of the NRA, 98% of the residents of your own town. You get the idea...
When there is room for discretion, these people get consideration. And certainly don't get jammed up on anything minor. You kill somebody or steal the city payroll, then you changed sides. But I'm clearly innocent until proven guilty type of guy.
And, I'll be honest about my profession. My career choices did not include brain surgery or rocket science. Being LEO has a number of drawbacks, which tend to scare away the very candidates society should want to have performing the LE task. Which means we get more than a few who should be flipping burgers. That's a whole 'nother book.
Marine
Your interpretation (and mine) of the Second Amendment differs from those who interpret the law for a living. There are other dynamics in play besides my and your belief in how the Constitution should be enforced. I also accept that I may be wrong. I do accept the fact that not every person should be allowed to carry a firearm. Convicted felons and the mentally ill come to mind. If we accept that the state (in a republic) can limit one group from the rights of the Second Amendment, then I think you can argue the state has a right to limit carry by law. We simply need to control our own governments. Like that would be easy.
I also believe in the our form of government. And I recognize that I can't survive without the greater community.
I support the causes which are working within the system to change the laws. I think every state should be at least "will issue."
I respect your decision to carry unlicensed. I hope that you have weighed the cost/benefit to that decision carefully. It sounds like you fit my definition of one of the "good guys" and it would displease me to have you caused grief.
posted
Having a gun without a permit is not anti social behavior, it is exercising a creator endowed right to bear arms for protection. The government cannot give anything but previliges , rights are inherent and either recognized by the system or not recognized. I as a peace officer wouldn't bother someone not involved in a crime over the issue of no permit. Of course I also believe that once a criminal has served his prision term, his parole or probation, made restitution and discharged his debt to society all rights including firearm rights should be returned automatically.
quote:Originally posted by Thomas Paine: Of course I also believe that once a criminal has served his prision term, his parole or probation, made restitution and discharged his debt to society all rights including firearm rights should be returned automatically.
posted
I was a peace officer for 13 years (most of them part-time) until I moved to a different state earlier this year. We have the power of discretion and exercise it on a regular basis by giving warnings for speeding, etc. The same holds true for "illegally" carrying a firearm. If I pulled someone over for a simple violation such as speeding and they presented no reason for me to be concerned, I would warn them to be more cautious in their carry habits.
posted
No. All I'm saying is that I have found is what works for me and my community may not work for you and your community. We all find our place. And I wouldn't presume to tell you how to do your job.
We may not agree, but I respect your opinion. It is based on your experiences. Which are different than mine. That means I may have something to learn from you.
quote:Originally posted by Opie: No. All I'm saying is that I have found is what works for me and my community may not work for you and your community. We all find our place. And I wouldn't presume to tell you how to do your job.
We may not agree, but I respect your opinion. It is based on your experiences. Which are different than mine. That means I may have something to learn from you.
Cool I can learn something from anyone so I get it now. Just the way it was phrased wasn't clear to me.
posted
A few points, if I may interject? Most LE look down on us COs, but we see a lot from both sides of the walls.
quote:Last time I was stopped, I was ordered at gunpoint to turn around, to put my hands on my head, get down on my knees, and I was disarmed and placed in handcuffs before anything went any further. What fun. Luckily for the officer, I understand why he may be fearful of an armed citizen. CWP holders don't all play nice all the time. He just wanted to get home at the end of his shift without any problems. Well, so did I, basically.
Last time I was stopped with a CCW permit, the Pima County Sherrif's Deputies did not even ask to SEE the weapon, much less have me step out and remove it. All they wanted was the license and proof of insurance, as this was a stop for expired tags. After they were done, and I returned home, I called thier desk Sgt to compliment thier professionalism - freaked him out. Opie, I see you live in a restrictive state. Here in Free AZ we have allowed permitless open carry since we moved in way back in the 1800s, with the exception of Tombstone. We only got the CCW permit back in 94, and some folks thought that meant the end of open carry, but we did not, and can still do. If I wish to walk down to the Circle K with a slung AK, I can do so with no qualms, as it is legal. We are more interested in what people DO with them. I also do informal interviews with the inmates I have supervies over the last few years. Licensing is a complete joke, and affects only law abiding. Heck, registration is held by the Supreme Court as only for law abiding - check it out, 5th Amendment case. Thomas Paine, I certainly hope you don't mean all supervisors have sold thier souls! I have been a Sgt for 1.5 years, and am looking forward to testing for LT in about 6 months, (first go round, see how I do), and work my way up. The higher the final salary, the higher the retirement paycheck. Pardon the interruption.
posted
On the subject...as peace officers, it isn't your place to judge people. Unfortunately it is your place to cite people for violations of laws made up by our POS politicians. Realistically, it is my belief that if you are medically unfit to carry a gun you should be in a hospital, and if you are legally unfit to carry a gun you should be in a prison...in other words, if you're not in jail or dying in a hospital you should be allowed to carry any gun of your choosing.
posted
I have been a responsible CCW holder in PA for 15+ years. I have a spotless record. I am also a criminal in the eyes of the law. When I travel outside the state I carry. After being armed for 20 yrs in the military I can not concieve not being armed. It just does'nt make sense knowing what is out there. I believe my first responsibility is to keep my family safe. You may say I believe the old quote "Better judged by twelve...". I DREAD the day I face charges for this because it will ruin me, but I firmly believe it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to restrict my carrying to certain states. I had hoped in Bush's term a National Permit would pass that would make me "lawful" 100% of the time.When I have been stopped in PA I do inform the officer of the presence of a loaded firearm and most do appreciate it. I would not do this outside of PA, but I am sure very soon all will be able to cross referance license/registration/ with permit holders and possibly holders of hunting licenses or gun owners period. Unnecessary since an LEO should always assume everyone is carrying, as I'm sure they do. We need to pressure our elected officials to support the National Permit, it is to everyones advantage.I do not blame the police for enforcing the law, I blame the idiots who stood silently and let it pass, along with the socialists who target our rights.
posted
SSGTM14, a Nationa Permit is a bad idea, as it gives Schumer and Feinslime the ability to take your CCW away, something they can't do at a state level. National reciprocity is what you want, where all states have to recognize each others' CCW permits, like drivers licenses, under the "full faith and credit" clause. Keep it local, so those named and unnamed antis keep thier hands OFF your permits, or in the case of vermont and Alaska, permitless CCW! Sorry to intrude again.
posted
Armoredman, Makes perfect sense! The opposition will make an all out offensive against the @nd Amendment in 2008. Is there any Bill that proposes natl reciprocity currently?
posted
There were several. One of the "first steps" was actually the law enforcement national reciprocity. I was informed that the next step was to add COs to the list, then licensed security guards, then CCW permit holders. Armored truck guards can already cross state lines armed while on the job. I don't remember if there is one right now, as the NRA has of course shifted thier "national priority" to a very small repeal of the DC gun ban. Search, anyone?
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